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Nonsensical. It's not just an idea ... they control actual territory, on the ground, that I can point to on a map. They have an army, they collect taxes, etc. Author is off his meds.
ISIS now in NA and we have Greece and Italy right there on our front doorstep with these terror states and the defeated Teutons want to press forward with mathematically impossible demands on these southern border nations where in their psychotic deranged minds everybody within the EU can be a "competitive" net exporter...
We cant put the fate of the west in the hands of a bunch of defeated human damaged goods...
What to expect... USA goes around the world creating chaos and then does nothing about it. It's just like Russia has called it, the elites in USA are using 'managed chaos' to keep global control.
Anyway, this 'threat' to Europe will pave the way for the nationalist right parties to rise. I think this is good because the incompetent left can't get anything done fixing the euro-mess.
A comeback of Berlusconi as crook as he is, or the North League, will increase the chance of euro-implosion.
So be careful what you wish for USA establishment, as your may get unexpected results of your action.
the US right would probably welcome a breakup of the EU/EZ... they see it as a symbol of "European Socialism"... also, the US right wants to pound ISIS into dust...
Right now the US is not under right control but if this changes, the war machine is going to crank up in earnest against ISIS....
Even Obama has applied for a war authorization recently:
Also, we have a date with destiny coming up mid-March when the current US "debt ceiling" suspension expires... so this is going to get interesting over here when this starts to get debated and Greece may go into the background...
Matt we need to redirect the surveillance-state we have created in the West towards crook control.
All the power of the NSA must be directed towards tracking those west citizens or officials that are facilitating oil trade coming from ISIS controlled-regions, and cash flows between ISIS controlled regions or any terrorists organizations and others. Any tax haven will be disposed and banks will open full disclosure if they still want to be connected with the western payment systems.
Any private party or govt official involved in such deals, even if it belongs to the CIA or Goldman Sachs must be judged for treason facing execution. No matter who he is, even presidents and prime ministers.
The Chinese are running a successful clean up operation murdering all the corrupt bankers and politicians. Well, not all, but a purge is always good (look how good it was for Stalin remaining in control). Maybe not as brutal, but we can do similar.
Democracy cannot work with wolves guarding sheep for their own good and profit (the good of the wolves). It only can work if the mob guards wolves with pitchforks 24/7 (USA founding fathers knew this).
All these under-the-table deals with wahhabists have to stop even if this means reducing the dependency of oil. We need trillions invested in energy alternatives and new logistics and cut them lose. Then let them rote, cut them from international trade and the whole ME will collapse in two years top.
As long as this does not happen the problems will continue unless we launch a full scale invasion and occupation the west is not willing to do (would mean massacring the population in oil-controlling countries, wiping them out), and ofc we shouldn't morally. We need an alternative based on work and surveillance of our elites.
The strategy is simple, the only thing getting in the way are corrupt elites in the west.
Initial Obama back-up of Greece means they do not believe this 'decoupling from the world theory' and Europe instability would damage the 'recovery' in USA.
Merkel convinced them that the risk is 'contained' or 'everything under control' ('they will cave in'), or simple told them to jack off.
Maybe they have limited leverage and cannot get their hands in both Ukraine and Greece so had to choose (and Ukraine is a priority for the warmongers). Or maybe even there is a possibility to capitalize on Greece going out of the euro bidding on naval/air bases.
Many possibilities, but I don't think an euro-breakup it's a desired outcome by the USA establishment right now with an already very weak global economy.
P.S: BTW Russia just launched their SWIFT-alternative, adding more spice to the current events.
Why not find productive human endeavors for the people to do? Maybe Islamic leaders need better Jihad organizations that channel the exuberance of young men into priorities that don't include killing people? The existing organizations like Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, or whoever achieve social and economic justice and prosthelytizing non-believers but allow extreme violence in their name. To me, the fact that sociopaths, psychopaths and deranged killers have an institutional place in the process simply means that there is a lack of religious leadership in the organizations and wise people providing guidance. This is probably because the organizations are under attack by governments everywhere and can not be brought into civilized leadership.
Harnessing the energy and ambitions of young to change the world isn't a difficult problem to solve and we know how to do it. Until economic conditions improve in North Africa, Arabia, Asia and Middle East there will be a strong incentive for violence. The really mentally ill blood thirsty people from the west that are going for little more than blood-sport should probably be dealt with in mental health professionals in those countries. Of the people prancing about showing off their trophy severed heads, a startling number are Europeans, Americans, Australians, Russians. Maybe racism, cultural and social barriers prevent them from receiving the mental-health care they need? I don't know the solutions but bombs aren't going to make young people less ambitious.
Can't go to war against an idea? Russian stockpiled enough explosive as part of its "war" on capitalism to wipe out the entire planet, and the US also stockpiled enough to wipe out the planet as part of its "war" on communism.
Exactly. Reality for humans is almost exclusively socially constructed using language that gives expression to "ideas." Meaning is context-dependent, so changing context shifts meaning and with this shift, "reality" shifts too.
They go to war against each other all the time.
Conflict of ideas manifests in actual conflict. This is the driver of Hegel's historical dialectic.
Please tell me you haven't joined Mr. Hickey's nihilism
There are different types of nihilism. I am a "nihilist" like Buddha was a "nihilist" — a transcendental "nihilist" along with Buddha, Shankara, Al Arabi, Eckhart, Heraclitus, Lao Tzu, Moses Cordovero, and many other proponents of nonduality.
This doesn't mean that I don't accept ethical precepts or there being moral and aesthetic sentiment. What I am claiming is that there are no absolute criteria available, and also that there are no relative criteria that can compel universal acceptance other than over what is rather trivial. The enduring questions endure for a reason.
Everyone necessarily has some world view that can be expressed as an ideology bounded by norms that function as criteria, and since meaning is context-based, in order to use a language, some shared world view is required for meaning to be the same for different language users. Those with rather different world views may use the same terms but they will be talking past each other.
What I am saying is that criteria are relative to the systems in which they are embedded and there is no overarching universal system that has yet been discovered that all humans accept and function in terms of. One could say that we are groping toward that through enquiry into possibilities and exploration of alternative options.
This doesn't mean that each of us doesn't have have good reasons for thinking and believing the way we do that convince us that our world view is indeed congruent with reality. What I am saying is that these reasons are not sufficiently compelling to generate universal acceptance of that congruence.
There might be a system that actually true, or truer than others, and I think that there are criteria that suggest there is. There are good reasons to think that scientific explanations are superior pragmatically to magical ones, for instance, and there is good reason to think that there is an objective reality independent of individual minds that provides information about invariance that can be discovered.
On the other hand, science says nothing about what that reality is, only describes topologically how it is structured and functions through symbolic models that map this. For this we using language, including formal languages, and base our conclusions on outcomes — for example, hypothesis testing based on sense observation along with the extension of the senses through instrumentation and reasoning, statistics being a type of reasoning. We also evaluate theories based on practical results, e.g., technology.
However, description does not tell us what things are but rather how things stand at any moment of time and permute over time. What things may be is the subject of ontology aka metaphysics rather than science.
Most people agree that there is something beyond individual mind that accounts for experience but what they may be can be explained many ways, as the history of philosophy reveals. I have come to my own conclusions about this, and I also recognize that I cannot compel others to accept those conclusions based on criteria to which all agree.
The simple fact is that the enduring questions have no agreed upon answers even though they have been debated for millennia. I happen to think that they do have answers but these answers are not available to ordinary awareness but rather are "transcendental." Bu that is only one option among many possibilities that are already available and there is no reason think that these are exhaustive. But relatively few people see things the way I do.
I'm afraid Tom that philosophy has done to you what mainstream economics has done to us all.
There are no solutions to imaginary problems. Eventually, it was discovered that philosophers could be dropped from the payroll. This made it easier for the elite to rationalize and justify their status.
Adopting a worldview that promotes your own survival is recommended.
Adopting a worldview that promotes your own survival is recommended.
And that is going to lead to a circular firing squad.
Actually, I have followed that plan with like-minded people with whom I have cooperated to create alternatives, but that has not caught on sufficiently to obviate the unfolding of what promises to be to a catastrophe on the order of Noah's flood. That is why I have also been an activist of sorts. Even if it cannot be avoided completely, perhaps it can be mitigated.
While I remain optimistic in the long run, the die seems to be cast for deep correction.
You seek to become closer to God? You seek to become God?
That's one way to look at it. The mystical tradition s of the "religions of the book," Kabbalah, Mystical Christianity and Sufism, speak that way. Vedanta speaks of the Self. Tao, of Tao. Buddhism of no-self and emptiness. Perennialists hold that these are different ways of pointing in the same direction.
According to perennial wisdom (the testimony of mystics and the teaching of sages worldwide across the ages), "only That exists," regardless of what That is called. This distinction is known in Western thought as reality versus appearance, and it goes back to the ancient Greeks in the West.
If "only That exists," then one cannot get closer to what one already is, or become what one already is. One's realization of it can only increase until it is full.
The perennial teaching is that realization is not a matter of gaining something as much of removing what's obscuring it. But getting out of one's own way is not easy, even though it is simple, owing to the accumulated impressions of the past. A person's sense of limited individuality arises essentially from memories, as well as identifying oneself with a limited form.
According to perennial wisdom there are different "ways" or "paths" leading in this direction that converge as they approach the unitary source.
Realization is said to be "transcendental" because it is beyond the mind and limited individuality. The stages and stations of the path are also "transcendental" (as in Transcendental Meditation, for instance). These stages and stations, as well as realization, are set forth in the testimony of the mystics and the teaching of sages, who also set forth the means.
Prior to the Sixties, this was not widely known in the West other than to scholars and the few interested in such subjects, although it has been widely known and practiced in the East for ages.
Now it is becoming more widely known in the West and studied not only by scholars of religion but also in transpersonal psychology and cognitive science. Now translations of the works of perennial wisdom are available in Western languages, and the danger now is over-popularization, over-simplification, and commercialization, as well as a lot of plain foolishness. We are all aware of how capitalism seeks to monetize everything possible.
And most are probably aware that this ancient technology is now being adopted by business in order to enhance functioning as well as by medicine to reduce stress and and enhance well-being. There is now quite a bit of scientific research on it appearing in the West, although it was part of traditional medicine in India, Tibet, China, and Japan for centuries at least. It has also been the foundation of the internal martial arts of the East.
If "only That exists," then one cannot get closer to what one already is, or become what one already is. One's realization of it can only increase until it is full.
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
The perennial teaching is that realization is not a matter of gaining something as much of removing what's obscuring it. But getting out of one's own way is not easy, even though it is simple, owing to the accumulated impressions of the past. A person's sense of limited individuality arises essentially from memories, as well as identifying oneself with a limited form.
We cannot escape our own mortality. We can live in the now, which minimizes the role of our memories and any baggage associated with it. Then again, it is pleasant to daydream, to continue the narrative that comprises life.
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
Cannot be because realization transcends limited mind and individuality.
We cannot escape our own mortality. We can live in the now, which minimizes the role of our memories and any baggage associated with it. Then again, it is pleasant to daydream, to continue the narrative that comprises life.
That is one common point of view.
What are you seeking? Realization?
Realization cannot be either sought or found. It is the natural state. Ignorance can be reduced and finally eliminated by becoming increasingly natural. This process is entirely naturalistic. Nothing "supernatural" about it.
Ignorance of what? Ignorance of who one actually is instead of who one thinks and believes one is. So the natural process might be said to be one of remembering through forgetting. Sort of like growing up, or waking from a dream.
What is seeking? It is the effect of restlessness, which naturally occurs as one begins to awaken.
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. — 1 Cor. 13:11 (NRSV)
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
Cannot be because realization transcends limited mind and individuality
I should qualify this because it I not only interesting but important. Intellectual and artistic "enlightenment" are possible even in ordinary consciousness, at its upper limits and at the threshold of higher stages of awareness.
There are phase transitions between different states even of the physical world, and there are also quantum leaps. Sometimes transitions of awareness are gradual and sometime sudden "leaps".
On the one side of intellect is instinct, characteristic of animals, and other the other side is intuition and insight as direct, unmediated knowing, characteristic of the subtle. The use of intellect in science, the arts and humanities can and sometimes does develop intuition that is capable of exceeding the normal limits of the ordinary mind. Since cosmology is concerned with the universe as a whole, it can result in intuition and insight regarding the whole that not "merely" intellectual.
As can math in that it is concerned with the infinite. I have known some mathematicians that are way out there.
As Richard Feynman reportedly said of Einstein's discovery of relativity, "I don't see how he thought of it." That is to say, the discovery was not the outcome of an ordinary logical process of reasoning within the normal paradigm.
The process of using our faculties more deeply may result in gradual transitions that go largely unnoticed because of lack of contrast, but sometimes the leap is sudden with great contrast. For example, artists feel when closure is reached and the work is finished ("made perfect").
Similarly through plumbing the depths of oneself in one's field, whatever it may be, one can transcend ordinary limitations and arrive at a higher order of self-knowledge.
If one studies non-dualism and contemplates ii deeply one could arrive at intellectual insight that one might say is "intellectual enlightenment." This is fairly widely reported in many fields where people report an uncanny "knowingness" of the whole.
The type of experience and knowledge that has not yet reached the subtle, or is positioned at the threshold between the gross and the subtle, is nevertheless significant. So it would not be correct to dismiss it as irrelevant.
But it is not yet an experience of the inner way, and, unfortunately, it can be misinterpreted as more than it is.
Realization cannot be either sought or found. It is the natural state. Ignorance can be reduced and finally eliminated by becoming increasingly natural. This process is entirely naturalistic. Nothing "supernatural" about it.
Then why use words like transcend?
Ignorance of what? Ignorance of who one actually is instead of who one thinks and believes one is. So the natural process might be said to be one of remembering through forgetting. Sort of like growing up, or waking from a dream.
Who did Tom believe he was? Who are you really?
What is seeking? It is the effect of restlessness, which naturally occurs as one begins to awaken.
Or as one languishes in a purgatory of one's own making.
My rational self believes that I must seek employment. That is the mundane reality of the world I am a part of. I have chosen to ignore my rational self and await the consequences of that action. I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
According to perennial wisdom, there are (many) dimensions above ordinary mind, which is only aware of the gross material world and its thoughts about this dimension.
Complete realization of That not only encompasses all these dimensions, which are the artifacts of dualistic awareness, but also non-duality. Mind progresses through these dimensions as obstacles fall away.
There are much testimony of this and many teachings about it that are found worldwide extending from the present to prehistorical times. This is called perennial wisdom. It lies at the core of all religions and wisdom traditions and ties them together "like beads on one string," to quote a phrase of Meher Baba. (A project on which I am working is called Beads On One String.)
Al 'Arabi, whom Sufis call the greatest teacher (al shaykh al akbar), sums it realization of non-duality in terms of the religions of the book, which are based on the affirmation of unity in Deuteronomy 6:4 — YHVH eloheinu (our God) YHVH echad (one). Of this the Zohar says, "one but not in number"). Normative religions of the book teach monotheism; their mystical traditions teach unity of being, that is, non-duality.
Al 'Arabi: And for this, the Prophet (upon whom be peace) said: 'Whoso knoweth himself knoweth his Lord.' and he said (upon whom be peace), "I know my Lord by my Lord.' The Prophet (upon whom be peace) points out that, that thou are not thou: thou art He, without thou, not He entering into thee, nor thou entering into Him, nor He proceeding forth from thee, not thou proceeding forth from Him. And it is not meant by that, that thou art aught that exists or thine attributes aught that exists, but it is meant by it that thou never wast nor wilt be, whether by thyself or through Him or in Him or along with Him. Thou art neither ceasing to be nor still existing. Thou art He, without one of these limitations. Then if thou knowest thine existence thus, then thou knowest God; and if not, then not." — Ibn Arabi "Who Knoweth Himself…" From the Treatise on Being Translated by T. H. Weir, UK: Beshara Publications, 1976, pp. 4-5
Who did Tom believe he was?
Body, mind and personality.
Who are you really?
Pure consciousness.
Does this mean I have realized That? Only a preliminary taste.
Or as one languishes in a purgatory of one's own making.
The affective aspect of pure consciousness is bliss. This is different from the ordinary affective range of suffering to happiness that passes through indifference. Initially. one gets only tastes, then the taste gets established and grows. The range is no bliss through increasing levels of it to complete fulfillment.
No bliss is suffering, even when one is "happy." Heidegger called it Angst. It is anxiety over mortality that affects humans as self-conscious beings who are aware that they exist only temporarily in time.
My rational self believes that I must seek employment. That is the mundane reality of the world I am a part of. I have chosen to ignore my rational self and await the consequences of that action. I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
The teaching is to be in the world but not of it. On the analogy of a theater performance, play the role as perfectly as possible but know you are the actor and not the character.
As appreciation of universality broadens and deepens, one realizes that the author, actors, plot and audience are not merely interdependent but essentially one.
There are two ways, based on different dispositions. One is the way of the recluse who quits the world. The other is the way of the householder that remains in the world but renounces attachment to it internally. These opposite ways are suitable for people of different dispositions.
Both ways require internal renunciation, which alone leads to non-attachment and freedom from identification with form. External renunciation can be helpful for some, but it is not a requirement or even helpful for those lacking the disposition for it.
I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
A prerequisite for entering the path is being without individual desires. Part of real desirelessness is not desiring either an afterlife or enlightenment, or even the next breath. Desirelessness is bliss.
But desiring desirelessness is itself a desire. Desirelessness is the consequence of surrender.
Desire is life. How can one live in the world and be without desire?
Pure consciousness is desireless; it alone exists in reality (unity). Live lived in duality of subject and object, and the duality of opposites that constitutes the relative worlds includes desire and its opposite aversion.
Being in the world but not of it involves being in the state of desirelessness and living in the worlds of desire simultaneously. This is the beginning of enlightenment. Even at the most refined level of duality, desire remains. In non-duality, desire ceases and complete fulfillment replaces it, which was the object of desire all along.
Increasing desirelessness is only possible as pure consciousness wakes up and one identifies with it instead of mind, body and personality, which are attached to the world through desire. This is the process of refinement and sublimation of desire in the "crucible" or "fire"as reported by mystics.
That process happens gradually but the break is sudden, like uncoupling two railway cars. Then nothing changes and everything changes. A new level of freedom — freedom from attachment to and identification with form— is gained, although far from complete.
This is only a beginning stage. There is yet a long way ahead through successive dimensions, and different people take different routes depending on individual uniqueness and internal links based on previous connections.
According to perennial wisdom, there are (many) dimensions above ordinary mind, which is only aware of the gross material world and its thoughts about this dimension.
Complete realization of That not only encompasses all these dimensions, which are the artifacts of dualistic awareness, but also non-duality. Mind progresses through these dimensions as obstacles fall away.
Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization? Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?
Pure consciousness.
Does this mean I have realized That? Only a preliminary taste.
Are you using the non-medical definition, as in awareness?
The affective aspect of pure consciousness is bliss. This is different from the ordinary affective range of suffering to happiness that passes through indifference.
Initially. one gets only tastes, then the taste gets established and grows. The range is no bliss through increasing levels of it to complete fulfillment.
No bliss is suffering, even when one is "happy." Heidegger called it Angst. It is anxiety over mortality that affects humans as self-conscious beings who are aware that they exist only temporarily in time.
I have known bliss, or what I would subjectively describe as bliss. There are times, when I am reading a book or wandering through nature, that I am free of any thoughts of myself. I have no past or no future, it is as if I am timeless. Similarly, to enjoy a book is to escape ones perspective. I am referring to books that tell the stories of other living things, real or imagined. This is the only distinction that I can think of between bliss and happiness, based on my experience. I have been happy when involved with other people, playing games, figuring out problems, or running errands. I probably have social anxiety, so it is more likely that I will be happy when I'm alone. I have known happiness, bliss and fulfillment. Perhaps if you describe your own experiences regarding pure consciousness, this would help?
The teaching is to be in the world but not of it. On the analogy of a theater performance, play the role as perfectly as possible but know you are the actor and not the character.
I'm aware that I'm acting and I'm tired of it.
As appreciation of universality broadens and deepens, one realizes that the author, actors, plot and audience are not merely interdependent but essentially one.
How so? I cannot switch roles.
There are two ways, based on different dispositions. One is the way of the recluse who quits the world. The other is the way of the householder that remains in the world but renounces attachment to it internally. These opposite ways are suitable for people of different dispositions.
I chose a life of solitude when I was young. I suppose because it felt natural for me to do so. Knowing that I would never be married or have children was one of the few aspects of my life that I was certain of.
Both ways require internal renunciation, which alone leads to non-attachment and freedom from identification with form. External renunciation can be helpful for some, but it is not a requirement or even helpful for those lacking the disposition for it.
I kept my identity, except for those times when I am living 'in the now'.
A prerequisite for entering the path is being without individual desires. Part of real desirelessness is not desiring either an afterlife or enlightenment, or even the next breath. Desirelessness is bliss.
When I assume that death brings oblivion, that excludes other narratives. When I assume that I have no choice, that renders moot the question of whether I desire oblivion or not - I shall experience death. I do not desire oblivion. I desire immortality. I desire things that are beyond my reach, or are fantasies.
But desiring desirelessness is itself a desire. Desirelessness is the consequence of surrender.
Desire is life. How can one live in the world and be without desire?
By doing what you want?
Being in the world but not of it does not free me from the need to eat, sleep and be protected from the elements. My physical existence makes me dependent on others, on society, and on the ecosystem. Time spent maintaining ones physical needs is time not spent living in the now.
When I was 9 I had faith in the Judeo-Christian God and His teachings. I saw life as a journey to prepare and prove oneself worthy of Heaven. I desired to be worthy. Then I developed doubts and lost my faith. The desire went with it.
Are you on a spiritual journey of enlightenment? How would you characterize it?
You bring up a lot of interesting points, which I'll deal with separately as I get a chance.
Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization? Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization? Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?
According to perennial wisdom, all beings eventually get realization. In fact, this is the entire purpose of the universe.
Of course, this assumes rebirth in many different forms. This is explained in Meher Baba's God Speaks.
Here is Jalaluddin Rumi's poem on evolution that summarizes it. Translation by Isa Daudpota. Note that “Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels” symbolzes the inward or “involutionary” journey through the inner planes, while “What you cannot imagine, I shall be that” signifies God-realization. Rumi is acknowledged in perennial wisdom as a Sufi qutub (God-realized master).
I have experienced seven hundred and seventy mounds.
(1/2) A Tibetan llama’s somewhat ‘technical’ view:
A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, A.A. Bailey, Lucis Press Ltd. London, 1925, 1973.
INTRODUCTORY POSTULATES. I. There is one Boundless Immutable Principle; one Absolute Reality which antecedes all manifested conditioned Being. It is beyond the range and reach of any human thought or expression.
The manifested Universe is contained within this Absolute Reality and is a conditioned symbol of it. In the totality of this manifested Universe, three aspects are to be conceived.
1. The First Cosmic Logos, impersonal and unmanifested, the precursor of the Manifested. 2. The Second Cosmic Logos, Spirit-Matter, Life, the Spirit of the Universe. 3. The Third Cosmic Logos, Cosmic Ideation, the Universal World-Soul.
From these basic creative principles, in successive gradations there issue in ordered sequence the numberless Universes comprising countless Manifesting Stars and Solar Systems. Each Solar System is the manifestation of the energy and life of a great Cosmic Existence, Whom we call, for lack of a better term, a Solar Logos. This Solar Logos incarnates, or comes into manifestation, through the medium of a solar system. This solar system is the body, or form, of this cosmic Life, and is itself triple. This triple solar system can be described in terms of three aspects, or (as the Christian theology puts it) in terms of three Persons. ELECTRIC FIRE, or SPIRIT. lst Person. ...Father. Life. Will. Purpose. Positive energy.
SOLAR FIRE, or SOUL. 2nd Person Son. Consciousness. Love-wisdom. Equilibrised energy.
FIRE BY FRICTION, or Body, or Matter. 3rd Person. ...Holy Spirit. Form. Active Intelligence. Negative energy.
Each of these three is also triple in manifestation, making therefore a. The nine Potencies or Emanations. b. The nine Sephiroth. c. The nine Causes of Initiation.
These, with the totality of manifestation or the Whole, produce the ten (10) of perfect manifestation, or the perfect MAN. These three aspects of the Whole are present in every form. a. The solar system is triple, manifesting through the three above mentioned. b. A human being is equally triple, manifesting as Spirit, Soul and Body, or Monad, Ego and Personality. c. The atom of the scientist is also triple, being composed of a positive nucleus, the negative electrons, and the totality of the outer manifestation, the result of the relation of the other two. The three aspects of every form are inter-related and susceptible of intercourse, because a. Energy is in motion and circulates. b. All forms in the solar system form part of the Whole, and are not isolated units. c. This is the basis of brotherhood, of the communion of saints, and of astrology. These three aspects of God, the solar Logos, and the Central Energy or Force (for the terms are occultly synonymous) demonstrate through seven centres of force: - three major centres and four minor. These seven centres of logoic Force are themselves so constituted that they form corporate Entities. They are known as a. The seven planetary Logoi. b. The seven Spirits before the Throne. c. The seven Rays. d. The seven Heavenly Men. The Seven Logoi embody seven types of differentiated force, and in this Treatise are known under the names of Lords of the Rays. The names of the Rays are
Ray I Ray of Will or Power. lst Aspect RayII Ray of Love-Wisdom. 2nd Aspect Ray III Ray of Active Intelligence. 3rd Aspect
These are the major Rays.
Ray IV Ray of Harmony, Beauty and Art. Ray V Ray of Concrete Knowledge or Science. Ray VI Ray of Devotion or of Abstract Idealism. Ray VII Ray of Ceremonial Magic or Order .
(2/2) A Tibetan llama’s somewhat ‘technical’ view:
II. There is a basic law called the Law of Periodicity. 1. This law governs all manifestation, whether it is the manifestation of a solar Logos through the medium of a solar system, or the manifestation of a human being through the medium of a form. This law controls likewise in all the kingdoms of nature. 2. There are certain other laws in the system which are linked with this one; some of them are as follows: a. The Law of Economy. the law governing matter, the third aspect. b. The Law of Attraction. the law governing soul, the second aspect. c. The Law of Synthesis. the law governing spirit, or the first aspect. 3. These three are cosmic laws. There are seven systemic laws, which govern the manifestation of our solar Logos: a. The Law of Vibration. b. The Law of Cohesion. c. The Law of Disintegration. d. The Law of Magnetic Control. e. The Law of Fixation. f. The Law of Love. g. The Law of Sacrifice and Death. 4. Each of these Laws manifests primarily on one or other of the seven planes of the solar system. 5. Each law sweeps periodically into power and each plane has its period of manifestation and its period of obscuration. 6. Every manifested life has its three great cycles: Birth Life Death Appearance growth disappearance Involution evolution obscuration Inert motion activity rhythmic motion Tamasic life rajasic life sattvic life. 7. Knowledge of the cycles involves knowledge of number, sound and colour. 8. Full knowledge of the mystery of the cycles is the possession only of the perfected adept. III. All souls are identical with the Oversoul. 1. The Logos of the solar system is the Macrocosm. Man is the Microcosm. 2. Soul is an aspect of every form of life from a Logos to an atom. 3. This relationship between all souls and the Oversoul constitutes the basis for the scientific belief in Brotherhood. Brotherhood is a fact in nature, not an ideal. 4. The Law of Correspondences will explain the details of this relationship. This Law of Correspondences or of Analogy is the interpretive law of the system, and explains God to man. 5. Just as God is the Macrocosm for all the kingdoms in Nature, so man is the Macrocosm for all the sub-human kingdoms. 6. The goal for the evolution of the atom is self consciousness as exemplified in the human kingdom. The goal for the evolution of man is group consciousness, as exemplified by a planetary Logos. The goal for the planetary Logos is God consciousness, as exemplified by the solar Logos. 7. The solar Logos is the sum-total of all the states of consciousness within the solar system.
The Constitution of Man The constitution of man, as considered in the following pages, is basically threefold, as follows:
I. The Monad, or pure Spirit, the Father in Heaven. This aspect reflects the three aspects of the Godhead: 1. Will or Power - The Father 2. Love-wisdom - The Son 3. Active Intelligence - The Holy Spirit and is only contacted at the final initiations, when man is nearing the end of his journey and is perfected. The Monad reflects itself again in
II. The Ego, Higher Self, or Individuality. This aspect is potentially 1. Spiritual Will - Atma 2. Intuition - Buddhi, Love-wisdom, the Christ principle 3. Higher or abstract Mind - Higher Manas
The Ego begins to make its power felt in advanced men, and increasingly on the Probationary Path until by the third initiation the control of the lower self by the higher is perfected, and the highest aspect begins to make its energy felt.
The Ego reflects itself in
III. The Personality, or lower self, physical plane man. This aspect is also threefold 1. A mental body lower - manas 2. An emotional body - astral body 3. A physical body - the dense physical and the etheric body
The aim of evolution is therefore to bring man to the realization of the Egoic aspect and to bring the lower nature under its control.
re you using the non-medical definition, as in awareness?
Definition used in perennial wisdom.
Pure consciousness is also called pure awareness. The term for it is Sanskrit is samadhi, which means literally means "even intellect," and in Japanese this becomes satori,and Chinese sansei and sanmodi. The Chinese also use ding, which means “fixity” in English. In Sufism it is fanaa. There is no corresponding technical term running through Western mysticism. Illumination, absorption and ecstasy are sometimes used. Transcendental consciousness, the fourth state of consciousness (in addition to waking, dreaming and deep sleep), pure consciousness, and pure awareness are now used in technical literature.
Sometimes this experience is erroneously identified with realization of That, but this is not correct. The levels of realization that occur in dualistic consciousness are of still mind rather than the unitary state, even though the experience may seem to be non-dual. So in that sense they are "tastes" or "scents" rather than the real article.
I have known bliss, or what I would subjectively describe as bliss. There are times, when I am reading a book or wandering through nature, that I am free of any thoughts of myself. I have no past or no future, it is as if I am timeless. Similarly, to enjoy a book is to escape ones perspective. I am referring to books that tell the stories of other living things, real or imagined. This is the only distinction that I can think of between bliss and happiness, based on my experience. I have been happy when involved with other people, playing games, figuring out problems, or running errands. I probably have social anxiety, so it is more likely that I will be happy when I'm alone. I have known happiness, bliss and fulfillment. Perhaps if you describe your own experiences regarding pure consciousness, this would help?
Yes, this is it. It's not all that rare experience but few people communicate about it since it is not part of our culture in the West.
The more one becomes identified with the witness, the more natural action becomes and goes on by itself.
For those who live in the present (are present), the next right step is clear. In Sanskrit this is called "right action" (dharma). In Taoism it is called "doing without doing" (wei wu wei or just wu wei ). It is sometime translated "effortless doing." That is the essence of being natural. It's compared with the flow of water around obstacles iaw the law of least action.
In Taoism there are two ways, the water way, which is based on being natural, and the fire way, which is based on forced growth.
The latter is said to be faster but it is dangerous. The fire way in Tibetan Buddhism is called the short way, and those who undertake it are warned that they will either succeed, die, or go crazy. There is a similar distinction in other teachings.
I chose a life of solitude when I was young. I suppose because it felt natural for me to do so. Knowing that I would never be married or have children was one of the few aspects of my life that I was certain of.
Not unusual but uncomfortable since it is not supported in this culture. I can remember thinking as a child that I must have been born on the wrong planet by mistake. Fortunately, I was strong in my convictions and made my own way.
The philosopher Descartes, who founded modern philosophy, wrote in diary, "I go forth masked"(Prodeo ludens). He seems to have had mystical experience in his youth that led to his writing Meditations, which is famous for the cogito — "I think therefore I am" (Cogito ergo sum).
In the atmosphere in which he lived, he thought it best to hold his cards close to his chest. Those who didn't got themselves in difficulties, Spinoza, for instance.
Now we fortunately don't have to be concerned with that in this part of the world, anyway, but that doesn't mean that one will fit in easily either. But this is a blessing because one probably doesn't belong there anyway.
However, I have known people like this that were very active and successful in the world, too, and few knew of their "double life." One of them was Don Stevens, who was a vice-president of Standard Oil of California (now Chevron) and also a closet Sufi in the Chishti order that Inayat Khan brought to the West. He later became a close disciple of Meher Baba and editor of some of his books.
Preference for solitude is a great blessing. One just as to learn to make the most of it, which will be different for different individuals. Loneliness eventually turns into Aloneness.
I kept my identity, except for those times when I am living 'in the now'.
Eventually it will become natural to live in the now as witness of action and also act in the world. It seems contradictory but it is a paradox.
This is part of the training in the internal martial arts, for example. One needs to remain centered even in the midst of combat. This is the warrior's way. Warriors learn through practice to make it natural. They constantly drill so they don't have to think about it. They have to be fully in the fray and stay above it at the same time.
Krishna says to Arjuna on the battlefield, "Be beyond the forces of nature" [that are responsible for action] (nistraigunyo bhav) II.45. "Established in unity, perform action" [in the world of duality] (yogastha kuru karmani) II.48.
When I assume that death brings oblivion, that excludes other narratives. When I assume that I have no choice, that renders moot the question of whether I desire oblivion or not - I shall experience death. I do not desire oblivion. I desire immortality. I desire things that are beyond my reach, or are fantasies.
This is the existential dilemma that Sartre describes, undoubtedly base on his own experience in Being and Nothingness. Man desires to become God but cannot. He concludes that therefore "man is a useless passion" (l'homme est une passion inutile). I recall feeling that very deeply once and recalling Sartre at the time, thinking how correct he was.
It was a stage I passed through. You will too.
What happens in death has been described by those in a position to know.
Doing what you are told — by your inner voice as it were, aka the voice of "conscience." This requires being completely innocent and absolutely honest with yourself.
For those that live in the present (are present), the next right step is self-evident.
This only occurs as one moves past narrow self-interest.
Until then one is doing what one wants, I.e., pursuing one's own individual interests, however noble.
Of course, doing the necessary is necessary and not a matter of self-interest. But one should eat to live and not live to eat. Eat when hungry, drink when thirsty, sleep when tired, etc. Native Americans used to marvel at how stupid Europeans were because they needed watches to tell them when to eat.
Life is only difficult when we get overshadowed by convention and and are unable to discriminate between wants and needs and lack the sense to pursue only the needful and useful. Otherwise it is pretty natural and simple.
The art of living is largely discriminating between the important and the trivial instead of mistaking the trivial as important and taking the important to be trivial.
Being in the world but not of it does not free me from the need to eat, sleep and be protected from the elements. My physical existence makes me dependent on others, on society, and on the ecosystem. Time spent maintaining ones physical needs is time not spent living in the now.
At first one alternates between states of silence and activity. Over time the silence is maintained more and more along with activity. For those on the householder path, this integration is enhanced by deeply experiencing periods of silence and then periods of dynamic activity . Over time, silence gets established along with activity. This is a fifth state of consciousness. Deep silence is the fourth state.
In the way of the recluse, the person stays in silence as much as possible, which generally requires living very simply, doing simple awareness activity in which silence is easily maintained, or else joining a community of those cooperating on this type of life, like a monastery, artist community, or spiritual community. Teaching at universities used to be like this, too, but that is long gone in many places. Then there is the view that if it doesn't exist in your neighborhood, either move to where it does exist or create it.
When I was 9 I had faith in the Judeo-Christian God and His teachings. I saw life as a journey to prepare and prove oneself worthy of Heaven. I desired to be worthy. Then I developed doubts and lost my faith. The desire went with it.
What you experienced is natural. Many people feel that they are lost their faith because they have moved beyond normative religion, which is a preparatory stage.
One can only doubt beliefs. Conviction is a state beyond doubt. It is said to be a gift.
In Christianity this conviction is called the theological gift of faith, which is different from belief.
The other two theological gifts of the Holy Spirit are said to be hope and charity.
Hope is better conceived as trust, as in "trust the process."
Charity is best thought of as initiation into divine love. It manifests as appreciation of universality that results in altruism becoming natural, spontaneous and effortless.
Sufis divide the journey into four phases.
1. Shariat - the stage of normative religion characterized by doctrine, ritual and observances.
2. Tariqat - the stage of the way, which begins when one is on the threshold of the spiritual path.
3. Marifat - the state of gnosis or illumination where one becomes spiritually established.
4. Haqiqat - the state of God-realization.
It is a natural progression that unfolds differently for different people.
According to perennial wisdom, all beings eventually get realization. In fact, this is the entire purpose of the universe. Of course, this assumes rebirth in many different forms. This is explained in Meher Baba's God Speaks.
From that perspective realization would appear 'natural'. Without faith or conviction, that is a perspective I cannot share.
Yes, this is it. It's not all that rare experience but few people communicate about it since it is not part of our culture in the West.
Perhaps few people communicate it because they are rarely asked.
The more one becomes identified with the witness, the more natural action becomes and goes on by itself.
The more I'm aware I'm acting, the more natural my behavior should feel?
In Taoism there are two ways, the water way, which is based on being natural, and the fire way, which is based on forced growth. The latter is said to be faster but it is dangerous. The fire way in Tibetan Buddhism is called the short way, and those who undertake it are warned that they will either succeed, die, or go crazy. There is a similar distinction in other teachings.
Natural, like water off a duck's back. Is that not the way to live life? But when you have a monkey on your back, then it is the fire way, or the path of self-destruction, that will force the issue. This is a rather common human condition, isn't it?
Not unusual but uncomfortable since it is not supported in this culture. I can remember thinking as a child that I must have been born on the wrong planet by mistake. Fortunately, I was strong in my convictions and made my own way.
Why did you think you were born on the wrong planet?
What does 'culture' mean to you?
The philosopher Descartes, who founded modern philosophy, wrote in diary, "I go forth masked"(Prodeo ludens). He seems to have had mystical experience in his youth that led to his writing Meditations, which is famous for the cogito — "I think therefore I am" (Cogito ergo sum). In the atmosphere in which he lived, he thought it best to hold his cards close to his chest. Those who didn't got themselves in difficulties, Spinoza, for instance.
We are all aware that we must conform in certain ways, or risk trouble. In the harshest terms, we adapt or die.
Now we fortunately don't have to be concerned with that in this part of the world, anyway, but that doesn't mean that one will fit in easily either. But this is a blessing because one probably doesn't belong there anyway.
I am fond of the movie "The Misfits". As if to romanticize my experience of life.
However, I have known people like this that were very active and successful in the world, too, and few knew of their "double life." One of them was Don Stevens, who was a vice-president of Standard Oil of California (now Chevron) and also a closet Sufi in the Chishti order that Inayat Khan brought to the West. He later became a close disciple of Meher Baba and editor of some of his books.
I do not understand the decision by many to adopt a spiritual or religious label. I do not understand why it becomes a part of their identity.
Preference for solitude is a great blessing. One just as to learn to make the most of it, which will be different for different individuals. Loneliness eventually turns into Aloneness.
I have never felt loneliness. I have read that it compels people to endure unhealthy relationships, or to seek replacements for relationships that have ended.
Eventually it will become natural to live in the now as witness of action and also act in the world. It seems contradictory but it is a paradox. This is part of the training in the internal martial arts, for example. One needs to remain centered even in the midst of combat. This is the warrior's way. Warriors learn through practice to make it natural. They constantly drill so they don't have to think about it. They have to be fully in the fray and stay above it at the same time.
Having worked in the hospitality industry, I didn't see many 'naturals'. It's no secret that they receive the best service. Most people are unhappy and seemingly devoted to spreading their unhappiness wherever they go.
What happens in death has been described by those in a position to know.
This requires faith or conviction. It can be of no consolation to those without this gift (or delusion).
Doing what you are told — by your inner voice as it were, aka the voice of "conscience." This requires being completely innocent and absolutely honest with yourself. For those that live in the present (are present), the next right step is self-evident. This only occurs as one moves past narrow self-interest. Until then one is doing what one wants, I.e., pursuing one's own individual interests, however noble.
My "conscience" applies to actions that affect others, if it applies at all. If I were gregarious, I imagine that my inner voice would play a more significant role.
In the way of the recluse, the person stays in silence as much as possible, which generally requires living very simply, doing simple awareness activity in which silence is easily maintained, or else joining a community of those cooperating on this type of life, like a monastery, artist community, or spiritual community. Teaching at universities used to be like this, too, but that is long gone in many places. Then there is the view that if it doesn't exist in your neighborhood, either move to where it does exist or create it.
Yes, this could summarize my life. If only libraries were as good a place for silence.
What you experienced is natural. Many people feel that they are lost their faith because they have moved beyond normative religion, which is a preparatory stage. One can only doubt beliefs. Conviction is a state beyond doubt. It is said to be a gift.
So that is all it was, a belief.
The other two theological gifts of the Holy Spirit are said to be hope and charity.
I have little of either, or they are undeveloped. I don't see how someone could live without hope.
49 comments:
Nonsensical. It's not just an idea ... they control actual territory, on the ground, that I can point to on a map. They have an army, they collect taxes, etc. Author is off his meds.
It's not powerful anyway. They just have the funding and make a lot of noise, but most Muslims hate them.
And if they have the funding is because our crooks in power want and because we buy oil from there.
The Kurdish have defeat them on the ground, but again our crooks won't support Kurdish because politic and economic interests.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/16/egypt-hits-isis-affiliated-terrorists-in-libya-after-video-showing-mass/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/17/italy-fears-isis-invasion-from-libya.html
ISIS now in NA and we have Greece and Italy right there on our front doorstep with these terror states and the defeated Teutons want to press forward with mathematically impossible demands on these southern border nations where in their psychotic deranged minds everybody within the EU can be a "competitive" net exporter...
We cant put the fate of the west in the hands of a bunch of defeated human damaged goods...
What to expect... USA goes around the world creating chaos and then does nothing about it. It's just like Russia has called it, the elites in USA are using 'managed chaos' to keep global control.
Anyway, this 'threat' to Europe will pave the way for the nationalist right parties to rise. I think this is good because the incompetent left can't get anything done fixing the euro-mess.
A comeback of Berlusconi as crook as he is, or the North League, will increase the chance of euro-implosion.
So be careful what you wish for USA establishment, as your may get unexpected results of your action.
I,
the US right would probably welcome a breakup of the EU/EZ... they see it as a symbol of "European Socialism"... also, the US right wants to pound ISIS into dust...
Right now the US is not under right control but if this changes, the war machine is going to crank up in earnest against ISIS....
Even Obama has applied for a war authorization recently:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-war-authorization-worth
So things may start to crank up soon...
Also, we have a date with destiny coming up mid-March when the current US "debt ceiling" suspension expires... so this is going to get interesting over here when this starts to get debated and Greece may go into the background...
rsp,
Matt we need to redirect the surveillance-state we have created in the West towards crook control.
All the power of the NSA must be directed towards tracking those west citizens or officials that are facilitating oil trade coming from ISIS controlled-regions, and cash flows between ISIS controlled regions or any terrorists organizations and others. Any tax haven will be disposed and banks will open full disclosure if they still want to be connected with the western payment systems.
Any private party or govt official involved in such deals, even if it belongs to the CIA or Goldman Sachs must be judged for treason facing execution. No matter who he is, even presidents and prime ministers.
The Chinese are running a successful clean up operation murdering all the corrupt bankers and politicians. Well, not all, but a purge is always good (look how good it was for Stalin remaining in control). Maybe not as brutal, but we can do similar.
Democracy cannot work with wolves guarding sheep for their own good and profit (the good of the wolves). It only can work if the mob guards wolves with pitchforks 24/7 (USA founding fathers knew this).
All these under-the-table deals with wahhabists have to stop even if this means reducing the dependency of oil. We need trillions invested in energy alternatives and new logistics and cut them lose. Then let them rote, cut them from international trade and the whole ME will collapse in two years top.
As long as this does not happen the problems will continue unless we launch a full scale invasion and occupation the west is not willing to do (would mean massacring the population in oil-controlling countries, wiping them out), and ofc we shouldn't morally. We need an alternative based on work and surveillance of our elites.
The strategy is simple, the only thing getting in the way are corrupt elites in the west.
Initial Obama back-up of Greece means they do not believe this 'decoupling from the world theory' and Europe instability would damage the 'recovery' in USA.
Merkel convinced them that the risk is 'contained' or 'everything under control' ('they will cave in'), or simple told them to jack off.
Maybe they have limited leverage and cannot get their hands in both Ukraine and Greece so had to choose (and Ukraine is a priority for the warmongers). Or maybe even there is a possibility to capitalize on Greece going out of the euro bidding on naval/air bases.
Many possibilities, but I don't think an euro-breakup it's a desired outcome by the USA establishment right now with an already very weak global economy.
P.S: BTW Russia just launched their SWIFT-alternative, adding more spice to the current events.
Why not find productive human endeavors for the people to do? Maybe Islamic leaders need better Jihad organizations that channel the exuberance of young men into priorities that don't include killing people? The existing organizations like Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, or whoever achieve social and economic justice and prosthelytizing non-believers but allow extreme violence in their name. To me, the fact that sociopaths, psychopaths and deranged killers have an institutional place in the process simply means that there is a lack of religious leadership in the organizations and wise people providing guidance. This is probably because the organizations are under attack by governments everywhere and can not be brought into civilized leadership.
Harnessing the energy and ambitions of young to change the world isn't a difficult problem to solve and we know how to do it. Until economic conditions improve in North Africa, Arabia, Asia and Middle East there will be a strong incentive for violence. The really mentally ill blood thirsty people from the west that are going for little more than blood-sport should probably be dealt with in mental health professionals in those countries. Of the people prancing about showing off their trophy severed heads, a startling number are Europeans, Americans, Australians, Russians. Maybe racism, cultural and social barriers prevent them from receiving the mental-health care they need? I don't know the solutions but bombs aren't going to make young people less ambitious.
Social classes are ideas too. They go to war against each other all the time.
Continuously, in fact. :(
Can't go to war against an idea? Russian stockpiled enough explosive as part of its "war" on capitalism to wipe out the entire planet, and the US also stockpiled enough to wipe out the planet as part of its "war" on communism.
An idea to kill off Shiias and other apostates. The US believes it can harness it for its own purposes.
It's been long known that it is best to give young men jobs, or send them off to war in hopes that they not return alive. Avoids trouble back home.
"find productive human endeavors for the people to do?"
Ryan I think they already have (to them).... rsp,
Ugh. Please tell me you haven't joined Mr. Hickey's nihilism, Matt.
Social classes are ideas too.
Exactly. Reality for humans is almost exclusively socially constructed using language that gives expression to "ideas." Meaning is context-dependent, so changing context shifts meaning and with this shift, "reality" shifts too.
They go to war against each other all the time.
Conflict of ideas manifests in actual conflict. This is the driver of Hegel's historical dialectic.
Please tell me you haven't joined Mr. Hickey's nihilism
There are different types of nihilism. I am a "nihilist" like Buddha was a "nihilist" — a transcendental "nihilist" along with Buddha, Shankara, Al Arabi, Eckhart, Heraclitus, Lao Tzu, Moses Cordovero, and many other proponents of nonduality.
Ryan I dont think so.... I do think that GWB (a "born again"...) went way too easy on them though.... rsp
This doesn't mean that I don't accept ethical precepts or there being moral and aesthetic sentiment. What I am claiming is that there are no absolute criteria available, and also that there are no relative criteria that can compel universal acceptance other than over what is rather trivial. The enduring questions endure for a reason.
Everyone necessarily has some world view that can be expressed as an ideology bounded by norms that function as criteria, and since meaning is context-based, in order to use a language, some shared world view is required for meaning to be the same for different language users. Those with rather different world views may use the same terms but they will be talking past each other.
What I am saying is that criteria are relative to the systems in which they are embedded and there is no overarching universal system that has yet been discovered that all humans accept and function in terms of. One could say that we are groping toward that through enquiry into possibilities and exploration of alternative options.
This doesn't mean that each of us doesn't have have good reasons for thinking and believing the way we do that convince us that our world view is indeed congruent with reality. What I am saying is that these reasons are not sufficiently compelling to generate universal acceptance of that congruence.
There might be a system that actually true, or truer than others, and I think that there are criteria that suggest there is. There are good reasons to think that scientific explanations are superior pragmatically to magical ones, for instance, and there is good reason to think that there is an objective reality independent of individual minds that provides information about invariance that can be discovered.
On the other hand, science says nothing about what that reality is, only describes topologically how it is structured and functions through symbolic models that map this. For this we using language, including formal languages, and base our conclusions on outcomes — for example, hypothesis testing based on sense observation along with the extension of the senses through instrumentation and reasoning, statistics being a type of reasoning. We also evaluate theories based on practical results, e.g., technology.
However, description does not tell us what things are but rather how things stand at any moment of time and permute over time. What things may be is the subject of ontology aka metaphysics rather than science.
Most people agree that there is something beyond individual mind that accounts for experience but what they may be can be explained many ways, as the history of philosophy reveals. I have come to my own conclusions about this, and I also recognize that I cannot compel others to accept those conclusions based on criteria to which all agree.
The simple fact is that the enduring questions have no agreed upon answers even though they have been debated for millennia. I happen to think that they do have answers but these answers are not available to ordinary awareness but rather are "transcendental." Bu that is only one option among many possibilities that are already available and there is no reason think that these are exhaustive. But relatively few people see things the way I do.
I'm afraid Tom that philosophy has done to you what mainstream economics has done to us all.
There are no solutions to imaginary problems. Eventually, it was discovered that philosophers could be dropped from the payroll. This made it easier for the elite to rationalize and justify their status.
Adopting a worldview that promotes your own survival is recommended.
Adopting a worldview that promotes your own survival is recommended.
And that is going to lead to a circular firing squad.
Actually, I have followed that plan with like-minded people with whom I have cooperated to create alternatives, but that has not caught on sufficiently to obviate the unfolding of what promises to be to a catastrophe on the order of Noah's flood. That is why I have also been an activist of sorts. Even if it cannot be avoided completely, perhaps it can be mitigated.
While I remain optimistic in the long run, the die seems to be cast for deep correction.
Again, see Meher Baba, The New Humanity in Discourses.
What is Meher Baba to you?
What is Meher Baba to you?
The Awakener.
"I have come not to teach but to awaken." — Meher Baba, The Universal Message
You seek to become closer to God?
You seek to become God?
You seek to become closer to God?
You seek to become God?
That's one way to look at it. The mystical tradition s of the "religions of the book," Kabbalah, Mystical Christianity and Sufism, speak that way. Vedanta speaks of the Self. Tao, of Tao. Buddhism of no-self and emptiness. Perennialists hold that these are different ways of pointing in the same direction.
According to perennial wisdom (the testimony of mystics and the teaching of sages worldwide across the ages), "only That exists," regardless of what That is called. This distinction is known in Western thought as reality versus appearance, and it goes back to the ancient Greeks in the West.
If "only That exists," then one cannot get closer to what one already is, or become what one already is. One's realization of it can only increase until it is full.
The perennial teaching is that realization is not a matter of gaining something as much of removing what's obscuring it. But getting out of one's own way is not easy, even though it is simple, owing to the accumulated impressions of the past. A person's sense of limited individuality arises essentially from memories, as well as identifying oneself with a limited form.
According to perennial wisdom there are different "ways" or "paths" leading in this direction that converge as they approach the unitary source.
Realization is said to be "transcendental" because it is beyond the mind and limited individuality. The stages and stations of the path are also "transcendental" (as in Transcendental Meditation, for instance). These stages and stations, as well as realization, are set forth in the testimony of the mystics and the teaching of sages, who also set forth the means.
Prior to the Sixties, this was not widely known in the West other than to scholars and the few interested in such subjects, although it has been widely known and practiced in the East for ages.
Now it is becoming more widely known in the West and studied not only by scholars of religion but also in transpersonal psychology and cognitive science. Now translations of the works of perennial wisdom are available in Western languages, and the danger now is over-popularization, over-simplification, and commercialization, as well as a lot of plain foolishness. We are all aware of how capitalism seeks to monetize everything possible.
And most are probably aware that this ancient technology is now being adopted by business in order to enhance functioning as well as by medicine to reduce stress and and enhance well-being. There is now quite a bit of scientific research on it appearing in the West, although it was part of traditional medicine in India, Tibet, China, and Japan for centuries at least. It has also been the foundation of the internal martial arts of the East.
If "only That exists," then one cannot get closer to what one already is, or become what one already is. One's realization of it can only increase until it is full.
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
The perennial teaching is that realization is not a matter of gaining something as much of removing what's obscuring it. But getting out of one's own way is not easy, even though it is simple, owing to the accumulated impressions of the past. A person's sense of limited individuality arises essentially from memories, as well as identifying oneself with a limited form.
We cannot escape our own mortality. We can live in the now, which minimizes the role of our memories and any baggage associated with it. Then again, it is pleasant to daydream, to continue the narrative that comprises life.
What are you seeking? Realization?
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
Cannot be because realization transcends limited mind and individuality.
We cannot escape our own mortality. We can live in the now, which minimizes the role of our memories and any baggage associated with it. Then again, it is pleasant to daydream, to continue the narrative that comprises life.
That is one common point of view.
What are you seeking? Realization?
Realization cannot be either sought or found. It is the natural state. Ignorance can be reduced and finally eliminated by becoming increasingly natural. This process is entirely naturalistic. Nothing "supernatural" about it.
Ignorance of what? Ignorance of who one actually is instead of who one thinks and believes one is. So the natural process might be said to be one of remembering through forgetting. Sort of like growing up, or waking from a dream.
What is seeking? It is the effect of restlessness, which naturally occurs as one begins to awaken.
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. — 1 Cor. 13:11 (NRSV)
Is cosmology the scientific path to realization of the universe?
Cannot be because realization transcends limited mind and individuality
I should qualify this because it I not only interesting but important. Intellectual and artistic "enlightenment" are possible even in ordinary consciousness, at its upper limits and at the threshold of higher stages of awareness.
There are phase transitions between different states even of the physical world, and there are also quantum leaps. Sometimes transitions of awareness are gradual and sometime sudden "leaps".
On the one side of intellect is instinct, characteristic of animals, and other the other side is intuition and insight as direct, unmediated knowing, characteristic of the subtle. The use of intellect in science, the arts and humanities can and sometimes does develop intuition that is capable of exceeding the normal limits of the ordinary mind. Since cosmology is concerned with the universe as a whole, it can result in intuition and insight regarding the whole that not "merely" intellectual.
As can math in that it is concerned with the infinite. I have known some mathematicians that are way out there.
As Richard Feynman reportedly said of Einstein's discovery of relativity, "I don't see how he thought of it." That is to say, the discovery was not the outcome of an ordinary logical process of reasoning within the normal paradigm.
The process of using our faculties more deeply may result in gradual transitions that go largely unnoticed because of lack of contrast, but sometimes the leap is sudden with great contrast. For example, artists feel when closure is reached and the work is finished ("made perfect").
Similarly through plumbing the depths of oneself in one's field, whatever it may be, one can transcend ordinary limitations and arrive at a higher order of self-knowledge.
If one studies non-dualism and contemplates ii deeply one could arrive at intellectual insight that one might say is "intellectual enlightenment." This is fairly widely reported in many fields where people report an uncanny "knowingness" of the whole.
The type of experience and knowledge that has not yet reached the subtle, or is positioned at the threshold between the gross and the subtle, is nevertheless significant. So it would not be correct to dismiss it as irrelevant.
But it is not yet an experience of the inner way, and, unfortunately, it can be misinterpreted as more than it is.
Realization cannot be either sought or found. It is the natural state. Ignorance can be reduced and finally eliminated by becoming increasingly natural. This process is entirely naturalistic. Nothing "supernatural" about it.
Then why use words like transcend?
Ignorance of what? Ignorance of who one actually is instead of who one thinks and believes one is. So the natural process might be said to be one of remembering through forgetting. Sort of like growing up, or waking from a dream.
Who did Tom believe he was?
Who are you really?
What is seeking? It is the effect of restlessness, which naturally occurs as one begins to awaken.
Or as one languishes in a purgatory of one's own making.
My rational self believes that I must seek employment. That is the mundane reality of the world I am a part of. I have chosen to ignore my rational self and await the consequences of that action. I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
Then why use words like transcend?
According to perennial wisdom, there are (many) dimensions above ordinary mind, which is only aware of the gross material world and its thoughts about this dimension.
Complete realization of That not only encompasses all these dimensions, which are the artifacts of dualistic awareness, but also non-duality. Mind progresses through these dimensions as obstacles fall away.
There are much testimony of this and many teachings about it that are found worldwide extending from the present to prehistorical times. This is called perennial wisdom. It lies at the core of all religions and wisdom traditions and ties them together "like beads on one string," to quote a phrase of Meher Baba. (A project on which I am working is called Beads On One String.)
Al 'Arabi, whom Sufis call the greatest teacher (al shaykh al akbar), sums it realization of non-duality in terms of the religions of the book, which are based on the affirmation of unity in Deuteronomy 6:4 — YHVH eloheinu (our God) YHVH echad (one). Of this the Zohar says, "one but not in number"). Normative religions of the book teach monotheism; their mystical traditions teach unity of being, that is, non-duality.
Al 'Arabi: And for this, the Prophet (upon whom be peace) said: 'Whoso knoweth himself knoweth his Lord.' and he said (upon whom be peace), "I know my Lord by my Lord.' The Prophet (upon whom be peace) points out that, that thou are not thou: thou art He, without thou, not He entering into thee, nor thou entering into Him, nor He proceeding forth from thee, not thou proceeding forth from Him. And it is not meant by that, that thou art aught that exists or thine attributes aught that exists, but it is meant by it that thou never wast nor wilt be, whether by thyself or through Him or in Him or along with Him. Thou art neither ceasing to be nor still existing. Thou art He, without one of these limitations. Then if thou knowest thine existence thus, then thou knowest God; and if not, then not."
— Ibn Arabi
"Who Knoweth Himself…"
From the Treatise on Being
Translated by T. H. Weir,
UK: Beshara Publications, 1976, pp. 4-5
Who did Tom believe he was?
Body, mind and personality.
Who are you really?
Pure consciousness.
Does this mean I have realized That? Only a preliminary taste.
continued
coninuation
Or as one languishes in a purgatory of one's own making.
The affective aspect of pure consciousness is bliss. This is different from the ordinary affective range of suffering to happiness that passes through indifference. Initially. one gets only tastes, then the taste gets established and grows. The range is no bliss through increasing levels of it to complete fulfillment.
No bliss is suffering, even when one is "happy." Heidegger called it Angst. It is anxiety over mortality that affects humans as self-conscious beings who are aware that they exist only temporarily in time.
My rational self believes that I must seek employment. That is the mundane reality of the world I am a part of. I have chosen to ignore my rational self and await the consequences of that action. I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
The teaching is to be in the world but not of it. On the analogy of a theater performance, play the role as perfectly as possible but know you are the actor and not the character.
As appreciation of universality broadens and deepens, one realizes that the author, actors, plot and audience are not merely interdependent but essentially one.
There are two ways, based on different dispositions. One is the way of the recluse who quits the world. The other is the way of the householder that remains in the world but renounces attachment to it internally. These opposite ways are suitable for people of different dispositions.
Both ways require internal renunciation, which alone leads to non-attachment and freedom from identification with form. External renunciation can be helpful for some, but it is not a requirement or even helpful for those lacking the disposition for it.
I await oblivion, which I assume is a part of death.
A prerequisite for entering the path is being without individual desires. Part of real desirelessness is not desiring either an afterlife or enlightenment, or even the next breath. Desirelessness is bliss.
But desiring desirelessness is itself a desire. Desirelessness is the consequence of surrender.
Desire is life. How can one live in the world and be without desire?
Pure consciousness is desireless; it alone exists in reality (unity). Live lived in duality of subject and object, and the duality of opposites that constitutes the relative worlds includes desire and its opposite aversion.
Being in the world but not of it involves being in the state of desirelessness and living in the worlds of desire simultaneously. This is the beginning of enlightenment. Even at the most refined level of duality, desire remains. In non-duality, desire ceases and complete fulfillment replaces it, which was the object of desire all along.
Increasing desirelessness is only possible as pure consciousness wakes up and one identifies with it instead of mind, body and personality, which are attached to the world through desire. This is the process of refinement and sublimation of desire in the "crucible" or "fire"as reported by mystics.
That process happens gradually but the break is sudden, like uncoupling two railway cars. Then nothing changes and everything changes. A new level of freedom — freedom from attachment to and identification with form— is gained, although far from complete.
This is only a beginning stage. There is yet a long way ahead through successive dimensions, and different people take different routes depending on individual uniqueness and internal links based on previous connections.
According to perennial wisdom, there are (many) dimensions above ordinary mind, which is only aware of the gross material world and its thoughts about this dimension.
Complete realization of That not only encompasses all these dimensions, which are the artifacts of dualistic awareness, but also non-duality. Mind progresses through these dimensions as obstacles fall away.
Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization?
Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?
Pure consciousness.
Does this mean I have realized That? Only a preliminary taste.
Are you using the non-medical definition, as in awareness?
The affective aspect of pure consciousness is bliss. This is different from the ordinary affective range of suffering to happiness that passes through indifference.
Initially. one gets only tastes, then the taste gets established and grows. The range is no bliss through increasing levels of it to complete fulfillment.
No bliss is suffering, even when one is "happy." Heidegger called it Angst. It is anxiety over mortality that affects humans as self-conscious beings who are aware that they exist only temporarily in time.
I have known bliss, or what I would subjectively describe as bliss. There are times, when I am reading a book or wandering through nature, that I am free of any thoughts of myself. I have no past or no future, it is as if I am timeless. Similarly, to enjoy a book is to escape ones perspective. I am referring to books that tell the stories of other living things, real or imagined. This is the only distinction that I can think of between bliss and happiness, based on my experience. I have been happy when involved with other people, playing games, figuring out problems, or running errands. I probably have social anxiety, so it is more likely that I will be happy when I'm alone.
I have known happiness, bliss and fulfillment. Perhaps if you describe your own experiences regarding pure consciousness, this would help?
The teaching is to be in the world but not of it. On the analogy of a theater performance, play the role as perfectly as possible but know you are the actor and not the character.
I'm aware that I'm acting and I'm tired of it.
As appreciation of universality broadens and deepens, one realizes that the author, actors, plot and audience are not merely interdependent but essentially one.
How so? I cannot switch roles.
There are two ways, based on different dispositions. One is the way of the recluse who quits the world. The other is the way of the householder that remains in the world but renounces attachment to it internally. These opposite ways are suitable for people of different dispositions.
I chose a life of solitude when I was young. I suppose because it felt natural for me to do so. Knowing that I would never be married or have children was one of the few aspects of my life that I was certain of.
Both ways require internal renunciation, which alone leads to non-attachment and freedom from identification with form. External renunciation can be helpful for some, but it is not a requirement or even helpful for those lacking the disposition for it.
I kept my identity, except for those times when I am living 'in the now'.
A prerequisite for entering the path is being without individual desires. Part of real desirelessness is not desiring either an afterlife or enlightenment, or even the next
breath. Desirelessness is bliss.
When I assume that death brings oblivion, that excludes other narratives. When I assume that I have no choice, that renders moot the question of whether I desire oblivion or not - I shall experience death. I do not desire oblivion. I desire immortality. I desire things that are beyond my reach, or are fantasies.
But desiring desirelessness is itself a desire. Desirelessness is the consequence of surrender.
Desire is life. How can one live in the world and be without desire?
By doing what you want?
Being in the world but not of it does not free me from the need to eat, sleep and be protected from the elements. My physical existence makes me dependent on others, on society, and on the ecosystem. Time spent maintaining ones physical needs is time not spent living in the now.
When I was 9 I had faith in the Judeo-Christian God and His teachings. I saw life as a journey to prepare and prove oneself worthy of Heaven. I desired to be worthy. Then I developed doubts and lost my faith. The desire went with it.
Are you on a spiritual journey of enlightenment? How would you characterize it?
You bring up a lot of interesting points, which I'll deal with separately as I get a chance.
Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization?
Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?Then perhaps words like 'natural' should not be used. I mean, how many of the 7+ billion people on Earth will achieve this level of realization?
Are we to assume that humans are the only species on this planet capable of realization?
According to perennial wisdom, all beings eventually get realization. In fact, this is the entire purpose of the universe.
Of course, this assumes rebirth in many different forms. This is explained in Meher Baba's God Speaks.
Here is Jalaluddin Rumi's poem on evolution that summarizes it. Translation by Isa Daudpota. Note that “Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels” symbolzes the inward or “involutionary” journey through the inner planes, while “What you cannot imagine, I shall be that” signifies God-realization. Rumi is acknowledged in perennial wisdom as a Sufi qutub (God-realized master).
I have experienced seven hundred and seventy mounds.
I died from minerality and became vegetable;
And from vegetativeness I died and became animal.
I died from animality and became man.
Then why fear disappearance though death?
Next time I shall die
Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels;
After that soaring higher than angels-
What you cannot imagine, I shall be that.
(1/2) A Tibetan llama’s somewhat ‘technical’ view:
A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, A.A. Bailey, Lucis Press Ltd. London, 1925, 1973.
INTRODUCTORY POSTULATES.
I. There is one Boundless Immutable Principle; one Absolute Reality which antecedes all manifested conditioned Being. It is beyond the range and reach of any human thought or expression.
The manifested Universe is contained within this Absolute Reality and is a conditioned symbol of it. In the totality of this manifested Universe, three aspects are to be conceived.
1. The First Cosmic Logos, impersonal and unmanifested, the precursor of the Manifested.
2. The Second Cosmic Logos, Spirit-Matter, Life, the Spirit of the Universe.
3. The Third Cosmic Logos, Cosmic Ideation, the Universal World-Soul.
From these basic creative principles, in successive gradations there issue in ordered sequence the numberless Universes comprising countless Manifesting Stars and Solar Systems.
Each Solar System is the manifestation of the energy and life of a great Cosmic Existence, Whom we call, for lack of a better term, a Solar Logos.
This Solar Logos incarnates, or comes into manifestation, through the medium of a solar system.
This solar system is the body, or form, of this cosmic Life, and is itself triple.
This triple solar system can be described in terms of three aspects, or (as the Christian theology puts it) in terms of three Persons.
ELECTRIC FIRE, or SPIRIT.
lst Person. ...Father. Life. Will. Purpose. Positive energy.
SOLAR FIRE, or SOUL.
2nd Person Son. Consciousness. Love-wisdom. Equilibrised energy.
FIRE BY FRICTION, or Body, or Matter.
3rd Person. ...Holy Spirit. Form. Active Intelligence. Negative energy.
Each of these three is also triple in manifestation, making therefore
a. The nine Potencies or Emanations.
b. The nine Sephiroth.
c. The nine Causes of Initiation.
These, with the totality of manifestation or the Whole, produce the ten (10) of perfect manifestation, or the perfect MAN.
These three aspects of the Whole are present in every form.
a. The solar system is triple, manifesting through the three above mentioned.
b. A human being is equally triple, manifesting as Spirit, Soul and Body, or Monad, Ego and Personality.
c. The atom of the scientist is also triple, being composed of a positive nucleus, the negative electrons, and the totality of the outer manifestation, the result of the relation of the other two.
The three aspects of every form are inter-related and susceptible of intercourse, because
a. Energy is in motion and circulates.
b. All forms in the solar system form part of the Whole, and are not isolated units.
c. This is the basis of brotherhood, of the communion of saints, and of astrology.
These three aspects of God, the solar Logos, and the Central Energy or Force (for the terms are occultly synonymous) demonstrate through seven centres of force: - three major centres and four minor. These seven centres of logoic Force are themselves so constituted that they form corporate Entities. They are known as
a. The seven planetary Logoi.
b. The seven Spirits before the Throne.
c. The seven Rays.
d. The seven Heavenly Men.
The Seven Logoi embody seven types of differentiated force, and in this Treatise are known under the names of Lords of the Rays. The names of the Rays are
Ray I Ray of Will or Power. lst Aspect
RayII Ray of Love-Wisdom. 2nd Aspect
Ray III Ray of Active Intelligence. 3rd Aspect
These are the major Rays.
Ray IV Ray of Harmony, Beauty and Art.
Ray V Ray of Concrete Knowledge or Science.
Ray VI Ray of Devotion or of Abstract Idealism.
Ray VII Ray of Ceremonial Magic or Order .
(2/2) A Tibetan llama’s somewhat ‘technical’ view:
II. There is a basic law called the Law of Periodicity.
1. This law governs all manifestation, whether it is the manifestation of a solar Logos through the medium of a solar system, or the manifestation of a human being through the medium of a form. This law controls likewise in all the kingdoms of nature.
2. There are certain other laws in the system which are linked with this one; some of them are as follows:
a. The Law of Economy. the law governing matter, the third aspect.
b. The Law of Attraction. the law governing soul, the second aspect.
c. The Law of Synthesis. the law governing spirit, or the first aspect.
3. These three are cosmic laws. There are seven systemic laws, which govern the manifestation of our solar Logos:
a. The Law of Vibration.
b. The Law of Cohesion.
c. The Law of Disintegration.
d. The Law of Magnetic Control.
e. The Law of Fixation.
f. The Law of Love.
g. The Law of Sacrifice and Death.
4. Each of these Laws manifests primarily on one or other of the seven planes of the solar system.
5. Each law sweeps periodically into power and each plane has its period of manifestation and its period of obscuration.
6. Every manifested life has its three great cycles:
Birth Life Death
Appearance growth disappearance
Involution evolution obscuration
Inert motion activity rhythmic motion
Tamasic life rajasic life sattvic life.
7. Knowledge of the cycles involves knowledge of number, sound and colour.
8. Full knowledge of the mystery of the cycles is the possession only of the perfected adept.
III. All souls are identical with the Oversoul.
1. The Logos of the solar system is the Macrocosm. Man is the Microcosm.
2. Soul is an aspect of every form of life from a Logos to an atom.
3. This relationship between all souls and the Oversoul constitutes the basis for the scientific belief in Brotherhood. Brotherhood is a fact in nature, not an ideal.
4. The Law of Correspondences will explain the details of this relationship. This Law of Correspondences or of Analogy is the interpretive law of the system, and explains God to man.
5. Just as God is the Macrocosm for all the kingdoms in Nature, so man is the Macrocosm for all the sub-human kingdoms.
6. The goal for the evolution of the atom is self consciousness as exemplified in the human kingdom.
The goal for the evolution of man is group consciousness, as exemplified by a planetary Logos.
The goal for the planetary Logos is God consciousness, as exemplified by the solar Logos.
7. The solar Logos is the sum-total of all the states of consciousness within the solar system.
The Constitution of Man
The constitution of man, as considered in the following pages, is basically threefold, as follows:
I. The Monad, or pure Spirit, the Father in Heaven.
This aspect reflects the three aspects of the Godhead:
1. Will or Power - The Father
2. Love-wisdom - The Son
3. Active Intelligence - The Holy Spirit
and is only contacted at the final initiations, when man is nearing the end of his journey and is perfected. The Monad reflects itself again in
II. The Ego, Higher Self, or Individuality.
This aspect is potentially
1. Spiritual Will - Atma
2. Intuition - Buddhi, Love-wisdom, the Christ principle
3. Higher or abstract Mind - Higher Manas
The Ego begins to make its power felt in advanced men, and increasingly on the Probationary Path until by the third initiation the control of the lower self by the higher is perfected, and the highest aspect begins to make its energy felt.
The Ego reflects itself in
III. The Personality, or lower self, physical plane man.
This aspect is also threefold
1. A mental body lower - manas
2. An emotional body - astral body
3. A physical body - the dense physical and the etheric body
The aim of evolution is therefore to bring man to the realization of the Egoic aspect and to bring the lower nature under its control.
re you using the non-medical definition, as in awareness?
Definition used in perennial wisdom.
Pure consciousness is also called pure awareness. The term for it is Sanskrit is samadhi, which means literally means "even intellect," and in Japanese this becomes satori,and Chinese sansei and sanmodi. The Chinese also use ding, which means “fixity” in English. In Sufism it is fanaa. There is no corresponding technical term running through Western mysticism. Illumination, absorption and ecstasy are sometimes used. Transcendental consciousness, the fourth state of consciousness (in addition to waking, dreaming and deep sleep), pure consciousness, and pure awareness are now used in technical literature.
Sometimes this experience is erroneously identified with realization of That, but this is not correct. The levels of realization that occur in dualistic consciousness are of still mind rather than the unitary state, even though the experience may seem to be non-dual. So in that sense they are "tastes" or "scents" rather than the real article.
I have known bliss, or what I would subjectively describe as bliss. There are times, when I am reading a book or wandering through nature, that I am free of any thoughts of myself. I have no past or no future, it is as if I am timeless. Similarly, to enjoy a book is to escape ones perspective. I am referring to books that tell the stories of other living things, real or imagined. This is the only distinction that I can think of between bliss and happiness, based on my experience. I have been happy when involved with other people, playing games, figuring out problems, or running errands. I probably have social anxiety, so it is more likely that I will be happy when I'm alone. I have known happiness, bliss and fulfillment. Perhaps if you describe your own experiences regarding pure consciousness, this would help?
Yes, this is it. It's not all that rare experience but few people communicate about it since it is not part of our culture in the West.
I'm aware that I'm acting and I'm tired of it.
The more one becomes identified with the witness, the more natural action becomes and goes on by itself.
For those who live in the present (are present), the next right step is clear. In Sanskrit this is called "right action" (dharma). In Taoism it is called "doing without doing" (wei wu wei or just wu wei ). It is sometime translated "effortless doing." That is the essence of being natural. It's compared with the flow of water around obstacles iaw the law of least action.
In Taoism there are two ways, the water way, which is based on being natural, and the fire way, which is based on forced growth.
The latter is said to be faster but it is dangerous. The fire way in Tibetan Buddhism is called the short way, and those who undertake it are warned that they will either succeed, die, or go crazy. There is a similar distinction in other teachings.
How so? I cannot switch roles.
Happens naturally. No need to exert effort. That just get in the way of the process. Trust the process.
I chose a life of solitude when I was young. I suppose because it felt natural for me to do so. Knowing that I would never be married or have children was one of the few aspects of my life that I was certain of.
Not unusual but uncomfortable since it is not supported in this culture. I can remember thinking as a child that I must have been born on the wrong planet by mistake. Fortunately, I was strong in my convictions and made my own way.
The philosopher Descartes, who founded modern philosophy, wrote in diary, "I go forth masked"(Prodeo ludens). He seems to have had mystical experience in his youth that led to his writing Meditations, which is famous for the cogito — "I think therefore I am" (Cogito ergo sum).
In the atmosphere in which he lived, he thought it best to hold his cards close to his chest. Those who didn't got themselves in difficulties, Spinoza, for instance.
Now we fortunately don't have to be concerned with that in this part of the world, anyway, but that doesn't mean that one will fit in easily either. But this is a blessing because one probably doesn't belong there anyway.
However, I have known people like this that were very active and successful in the world, too, and few knew of their "double life." One of them was Don Stevens, who was a vice-president of Standard Oil of California (now Chevron) and also a closet Sufi in the Chishti order that Inayat Khan brought to the West. He later became a close disciple of Meher Baba and editor of some of his books.
Preference for solitude is a great blessing. One just as to learn to make the most of it, which will be different for different individuals. Loneliness eventually turns into Aloneness.
I kept my identity, except for those times when I am living 'in the now'.
Eventually it will become natural to live in the now as witness of action and also act in the world. It seems contradictory but it is a paradox.
This is part of the training in the internal martial arts, for example. One needs to remain centered even in the midst of combat. This is the warrior's way. Warriors learn through practice to make it natural. They constantly drill so they don't have to think about it. They have to be fully in the fray and stay above it at the same time.
Krishna says to Arjuna on the battlefield, "Be beyond the forces of nature" [that are responsible for action] (nistraigunyo bhav) II.45. "Established in unity, perform action" [in the world of duality] (yogastha kuru karmani) II.48.
When I assume that death brings oblivion, that excludes other narratives. When I assume that I have no choice, that renders moot the question of whether I desire oblivion or not - I shall experience death. I do not desire oblivion. I desire immortality. I desire things that are beyond my reach, or are fantasies.
This is the existential dilemma that Sartre describes, undoubtedly base on his own experience in Being and Nothingness. Man desires to become God but cannot. He concludes that therefore "man is a useless passion" (l'homme est une passion inutile). I recall feeling that very deeply once and recalling Sartre at the time, thinking how correct he was.
It was a stage I passed through. You will too.
What happens in death has been described by those in a position to know.
Death, Book One
Death, Book Two
Listen Humanity, Part II, section I, "Death and Immortality"
By doing what you want?
Doing what you are told — by your inner voice as it were, aka the voice of "conscience." This requires being completely innocent and absolutely honest with yourself.
For those that live in the present (are present), the next right step is self-evident.
This only occurs as one moves past narrow self-interest.
Until then one is doing what one wants, I.e., pursuing one's own individual interests, however noble.
Of course, doing the necessary is necessary and not a matter of self-interest. But one should eat to live and not live to eat. Eat when hungry, drink when thirsty, sleep when tired, etc. Native Americans used to marvel at how stupid Europeans were because they needed watches to tell them when to eat.
Life is only difficult when we get overshadowed by convention and and are unable to discriminate between wants and needs and lack the sense to pursue only the needful and useful. Otherwise it is pretty natural and simple.
The art of living is largely discriminating between the important and the trivial instead of mistaking the trivial as important and taking the important to be trivial.
Being in the world but not of it does not free me from the need to eat, sleep and be protected from the elements. My physical existence makes me dependent on others, on society, and on the ecosystem. Time spent maintaining ones physical needs is time not spent living in the now.
At first one alternates between states of silence and activity. Over time the silence is maintained more and more along with activity. For those on the householder path, this integration is enhanced by deeply experiencing periods of silence and then periods of dynamic activity . Over time, silence gets established along with activity. This is a fifth state of consciousness. Deep silence is the fourth state.
In the way of the recluse, the person stays in silence as much as possible, which generally requires living very simply, doing simple awareness activity in which silence is easily maintained, or else joining a community of those cooperating on this type of life, like a monastery, artist community, or spiritual community. Teaching at universities used to be like this, too, but that is long gone in many places. Then there is the view that if it doesn't exist in your neighborhood, either move to where it does exist or create it.
When I was 9 I had faith in the Judeo-Christian God and His teachings. I saw life as a journey to prepare and prove oneself worthy of Heaven. I desired to be worthy. Then I developed doubts and lost my faith. The desire went with it.
What you experienced is natural. Many people feel that they are lost their faith because they have moved beyond normative religion, which is a preparatory stage.
One can only doubt beliefs. Conviction is a state beyond doubt. It is said to be a gift.
In Christianity this conviction is called the theological gift of faith, which is different from belief.
The other two theological gifts of the Holy Spirit are said to be hope and charity.
Hope is better conceived as trust, as in "trust the process."
Charity is best thought of as initiation into divine love. It manifests as appreciation of universality that results in altruism becoming natural, spontaneous and effortless.
Sufis divide the journey into four phases.
1. Shariat - the stage of normative religion characterized by doctrine, ritual and observances.
2. Tariqat - the stage of the way, which begins when one is on the threshold of the spiritual path.
3. Marifat - the state of gnosis or illumination where one becomes spiritually established.
4. Haqiqat - the state of God-realization.
It is a natural progression that unfolds differently for different people.
Are you on a spiritual journey of enlightenment? How would you characterize it?
I used to be, but then my master awakened me and I surrendered. I don't think about those things any more. It just doesn't come up for me.
According to perennial wisdom, all beings eventually get realization. In fact, this is the entire purpose of the universe.
Of course, this assumes rebirth in many different forms. This is explained in Meher Baba's God Speaks.
From that perspective realization would appear 'natural'. Without faith or conviction, that is a perspective I cannot share.
Yes, this is it. It's not all that rare experience but few people communicate about it since it is not part of our culture in the West.
Perhaps few people communicate it because they are rarely asked.
The more one becomes identified with the witness, the more natural action becomes and goes on by itself.
The more I'm aware I'm acting, the more natural my behavior should feel?
In Taoism there are two ways, the water way, which is based on being natural, and the fire way, which is based on forced growth.
The latter is said to be faster but it is dangerous. The fire way in Tibetan Buddhism is called the short way, and those who undertake it are warned that they will either succeed, die, or go crazy. There is a similar distinction in other teachings.
Natural, like water off a duck's back. Is that not the way to live life?
But when you have a monkey on your back, then it is the fire way, or the path of self-destruction, that will force the issue.
This is a rather common human condition, isn't it?
Not unusual but uncomfortable since it is not supported in this culture. I can remember thinking as a child that I must have been born on the wrong planet by mistake.
Fortunately, I was strong in my convictions and made my own way.
Why did you think you were born on the wrong planet?
What does 'culture' mean to you?
The philosopher Descartes, who founded modern philosophy, wrote in diary, "I go forth masked"(Prodeo ludens). He seems to have had mystical experience in his youth that led to his writing Meditations, which is famous for the cogito — "I think therefore I am" (Cogito ergo sum).
In the atmosphere in which he lived, he thought it best to hold his cards close to his chest. Those who didn't got themselves in difficulties, Spinoza, for instance.
We are all aware that we must conform in certain ways, or risk trouble. In the harshest terms, we adapt or die.
Now we fortunately don't have to be concerned with that in this part of the world, anyway, but that doesn't mean that one will fit in easily either. But this is a blessing
because one probably doesn't belong there anyway.
I am fond of the movie "The Misfits". As if to romanticize my experience of life.
However, I have known people like this that were very active and successful in the world, too, and few knew of their "double life." One of them was Don Stevens, who was a
vice-president of Standard Oil of California (now Chevron) and also a closet Sufi in the Chishti order that Inayat Khan brought to the West. He later became a close disciple of
Meher Baba and editor of some of his books.
I do not understand the decision by many to adopt a spiritual or religious label. I do not understand why it becomes a part of their identity.
Preference for solitude is a great blessing. One just as to learn to make the most of it, which will be different for different individuals. Loneliness eventually turns into
Aloneness.
I have never felt loneliness. I have read that it compels people to endure unhealthy relationships, or to seek replacements for relationships that have ended.
Eventually it will become natural to live in the now as witness of action and also act in the world. It seems contradictory but it is a paradox.
This is part of the training in the internal martial arts, for example. One needs to remain centered even in the midst of combat. This is the warrior's way. Warriors learn
through practice to make it natural. They constantly drill so they don't have to think about it. They have to be fully in the fray and stay above it at the same time.
Having worked in the hospitality industry, I didn't see many 'naturals'. It's no secret that they receive the best service. Most people are unhappy and seemingly devoted to
spreading their unhappiness wherever they go.
What happens in death has been described by those in a position to know.
This requires faith or conviction. It can be of no consolation to those without this gift (or delusion).
Doing what you are told — by your inner voice as it were, aka the voice of "conscience." This requires being completely innocent and absolutely honest with yourself.
For those that live in the present (are present), the next right step is self-evident.
This only occurs as one moves past narrow self-interest.
Until then one is doing what one wants, I.e., pursuing one's own individual interests, however noble.
My "conscience" applies to actions that affect others, if it applies at all. If I were gregarious, I imagine that my inner voice would play a more significant role.
In the way of the recluse, the person stays in silence as much as possible, which generally requires living very simply, doing simple awareness activity in which silence is easily maintained, or else joining a community of those cooperating on this type of life, like a monastery, artist community, or spiritual community. Teaching at universities
used to be like this, too, but that is long gone in many places. Then there is the view that if it doesn't exist in your neighborhood, either move to where it does exist or create it.
Yes, this could summarize my life. If only libraries were as good a place for silence.
What you experienced is natural. Many people feel that they are lost their faith because they have moved beyond normative religion, which is a preparatory stage.
One can only doubt beliefs. Conviction is a state beyond doubt. It is said to be a gift.
So that is all it was, a belief.
The other two theological gifts of the Holy Spirit are said to be hope and charity.
I have little of either, or they are undeveloped. I don't see how someone could live without hope.
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